The rambling thoughts of a Modern Orthodox Chassid (whatever that means). Contact me at emansouth @

Thursday, June 01, 2006

Just What Shlomo Had in Mind



  • At 11:21 AM, Blogger Ibitza said…

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  • At 12:09 PM, Blogger The Town Crier said…

    I hope you are being sarcastic!

  • At 2:52 PM, Blogger Eman said…

    TTC: I am always sarcastic.

    The irony of all this is that according to Shlomo Katz, Reb Shlomo played the neshama niggun once and somebody recorded it. Now, it's the biggest song around and every shiny shoe clown with an Armani Suit is recording it. And some are making up prust dances to go with it!

    There is turbulence on Har Hamenuchot.

  • At 2:53 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    That last comment was me.

  • At 9:52 AM, Blogger kishke said…

    I think Shlomo would have been just fine with it. It's no worse than the women accompanying him on one of his albums (was it the village gates?) At least this is not a halachic problem.

  • At 3:35 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…


    we disagree

  • At 4:55 PM, Blogger kishke said…


  • At 6:06 PM, Blogger OOS said…

    I am so sick of people trotting out the same tired old argument about Rav Shlomo touching women. No less than the Lubavitcher Rebbe will agree with you that Rav Shlomo's actions were wrong. However, I fail to see how that leads to the conclusion that he would be ok with the destruction of his song with trashy dance beats and even trashier dance moves.
    Some of what Rav Shlomo did was certainly not halachically permissible. He had other flaws as well. But does that mean that we should conclude that there was nothing special about his music? Were the things that he accomplished in life not incredible? All of us do things that we know are wrong, but, in general, that shouldn’t diminish what we have done right.
    The implication that Rav Shlomo’s music is no different than the trash that is being produced today boggles my mind.

  • At 6:52 PM, Blogger Noyam said…

    OOS, MoC and Eman -

    I think you may be overreacting. Rav Shlomo, in his capacity as a composer, was an artist. I am sure he would understand, and maybe even be in favor of, other arists borrowing and using his niggunim, and reimagining them in their own artistic. The idea of one artist being inspired by another is as old as art itself. To say that just because the beat is more modern makes the music bad just shows a bias against modern music. However, many people enjoy and ar touched by it.

    Another Jew is singing a Rav Shlomo niggun is not a bad thing. Oh, and I think kishke was referring to having women sing on his albums.

    And if this recording of Niggun Neshama bothers you, does the one that Neshama Carleback put out bother you? Are Rav Shlomo songs and niggunim so holy that no other artist may touch them? Come on, don't be ridiculous! Or is it only that artists that you approve of, and whose music you like, that can sing the holy, holy niggunim?

  • At 10:43 PM, Blogger kishke said…

    oos: I actually like Carlebach niggunim and I think that many of his niggunim transcended Carlebach the man. My point was that it's ridiculous to pretend that Carlebach, who pushed all kinds of boundaries, both halachic and hashkafic, would be turning over in his grave b/c of some silly dance moves.

  • At 11:46 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    Noyam and Kishke

    I think you both misunderstand Carlebach. He would not have had any problem with Neshama doing his niggun because she interpreted it the way he intended it. Same with Shlomo Katz's version.

    The Ohad techno-disco-trash version that I blogged about earlier and this horrible version with its prust and silly dance moves is another story. Shlomo did not like when people sung his songs incorrectly (which they often did (and still do)). I suggest that he would not have liked this garbage at all from a musical and esthetic perspective. It's simply crap.

    OOS is right; it has to do with music; not halacha.

  • At 10:55 AM, Blogger kishke said…

    If you mean from a musical perspective, then fine. I thought you were criticizing it from a haskafa standpoint, and saying that Shlomo would have the same problem.


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