MOChassid

The rambling thoughts of a Modern Orthodox Chassid (whatever that means). Contact me at emansouth @ aol.com

Saturday, October 18, 2008

"Is the Eruv Down?"

This morning, walking to shul on Peninsula Boulevard, a major thoroughfare, I saw two different men wearing their taleisim to shul.

This is one of my many pet peeves. We have an eruv in the Five Towns that is universally accepted. In fact, it is supervised by one of the more right wing institutions in the community. There is no reason to wear a talis to shul.

We are not in Israel, nor in a "yeshiva town". It is simply not tzanuah. (Even Rabbi Frand agrees with me, in a shiur I heard some years ago).

In any event, both Talis Men turned onto Woodmere Boulevard. I was right behind one of them when he was stopped by an old-timer on his way to (a different) shul.

The Old-Timer asked: "Is the eruv down?"

Talis Man: "Not that I know of. Why do you ask?"

Old Timer: "I see you are wearing your talis."

Talis Man: "Uh. I always wear my talis."

I'm still not sure whether Talis Man understands that Old-Timer was, as Beaver Cleaver might have said, "giving him the business".

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27 Comments:

  • At 11:07 PM, Blogger Special Ed said…

    what if they just don't use city wide eruvin at all?

     
  • At 11:15 PM, Blogger Child Ish Behavior said…

    What's the problem?
    If people want to wear their talesim to shul?
    A talis is a garment, it was chilly, you can carry the garment to shul or wear it. They chose to wear it.
    People can do what they want with out it being made into some sort of ideological thing.

     
  • At 12:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Rav Yaakov zs"l used to say that we live in Galus and therefore it's not right for us to wear talesim to shul. I always laugh when I see people wearing talesim and carrying a siddur.

    BTW- there are those that don't hold of Eruvim in general (based on the machlokes between the Rishonim if you need 600,000 people to make a street a reshus haRabim or not. But that still doesn't matter according to Rav Yaakov.

    BTW- Childish Behavior- if he's cold- let him get a coat!

     
  • At 12:50 AM, Blogger nyfunnyman said…

    i echo the above comments- many (briskers) don't use eruvin in general, as well I believe RHS is not a fan of the eruv in the 5 towns. that being the case, i understand your gripe somewhat, but it shouldn't be a pet peeve.

     
  • At 1:43 AM, Blogger Shira Salamone said…

    Thank you, MOC. To the best of my recollection, this is the first time in my over four years of blogging that I've seen, on an Orthodox blog, a discussion of tzniut (modesty) that had absolutely nothing to do with women's clothing and/or comportment. What a breath of fresh air.

    So nu, was the eruv down? :)

     
  • At 8:53 AM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    IMHO, if you are such a tzaddik that you don't hold by the eruv (that virtually every Rav in the community does hold by), bring your talis to shul Friday afternoon or wear it under your jacket or coat.

    It's not an ideological thing, it's an issue of modesty, a concept that, as Shira points out, seems to be applied only to women's dress but is far deeper thatn that and is ignored mostly by men these days.

     
  • At 11:20 AM, Blogger Joe Schick said…

    I think you're being way too harsh. I was in Flatbush for shabbos at my wife's sister & brother in law. They use the eruv there, I don't.

    I had planned to bring my talis to shul on Friday night as I prefer not to wear a talis, but then learned that they daven in one place Fri night and another shabbos morning. So I wore my talis to and from shul yesterday. What's the big deal about that?

    What it comes to trivial things like these, live and let live seems to me to be the right approach.

     
  • At 11:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    While leaving your tallis in shul is a very good way to avoid ruffling any feathers, if you are visiting the community (and do not have a place to put it), or you only plan on davening in the shul for shacharis, or you are not even sure where you will daven shacharis, it is not so simple to do so.

    Regarding the rabbanim who ceritify the eruv, the tallis-wearer can be a guest in a community, and have no idea who checks the eruv.

    As for the issue of not wearing it because we live in golus, perhaps we should refrain from wearing hats, streimlach, and bekishes in the street altogether. In a community where people are garbed in various forms of very Jewish dress, I doubt the tallis is going to really make a difference.

    While it is a good thing to be aware of how others perceive you, each person is entitled to be machmir/mekel wherever the halacha warrants, as long as it does not infringe on others. I cannot see how wearing a tallis infringes on others. (Especially by eruvin. Citywide eruvin are very complex, and there is plenty of room to be machmir.)
    Someone who wants to rely on a kosher tzuras hapesach eruv, has the right to do so, however, this right must come along with the courage not to feel inadequate when seeing someone who does not.

     
  • At 2:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I often wear my talis to shul in the five towns, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the Eruv.

    If I daven in a minyan that I don't daven in every week, there are a number of poskim who prohibit carrying a talis home from shul on shabbos, as this is preparing on shabbos for after shabbos (or next shabbos). Therefore, I wear the talis to shul, and wear it home. Having not taken it off, I am not carrying it to prepare for next shabbos.

     
  • At 5:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    my brother-in-law lives outside the eruv in woodmere and sometimes davens in aish (only for shachris) and therefore wears his tallis to shul...

     
  • At 5:38 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    I am mekabel all the reasons proferred in these comments for wearing a talis. All valid.

    It still drives me crazy and always will. Sorry.

     
  • At 7:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    nyfunnyman writes: "RHS is not a fan of the eruv in the 5 towns". Be careful throwing that one around: he was actually a consultant to the 5T Eruv and made several very constructive suggestions.

     
  • At 7:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    nyfunnyman writes: "RHS is not a fan of the eruv in the 5 towns". Be careful throwing that one around: he was actually a consultant to the 5T Eruv and made several very constructive suggestions.

    Be careful saying that- yes he was a consultant but no he didn't give his haskama to the end product because he had a fundamental problem with the Eruv going over the LIRR tracks- which is a derech Mayir Layir.

    AND also BTW- hats and streimlich are clothing while a talis is a bigdei Tefilah and not a regular clothing- so the two are very different. I understand the Hachana problems, etc. but that doesn't mean you can't wear your talis under your coat.

     
  • At 8:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    nyfunnyman: Have you discussed the eruv directly with RHS?

     
  • At 8:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    My favorite--are the guys walking home from shul with their Tallis on pushing the baby stroller.
    Not that I have all the answers but often I think Hakodesh Baruch Hu is looking down saying "What are you guys doing???"

     
  • At 11:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    MOC. See the book "Eyes to See" by Rabbi Yom Tov Schwartz. He has a chapter on wearing a tallis to shul and is less forgiving than you are.

     
  • At 12:53 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    anon 7:53

    Thanks for pointing out the difference between shtreimeleach, etc. and taleisim.

    One is meant to be worn outside, one is meant to be worn inside.

     
  • At 1:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    When in Rome do as the Romans do....

    When in the Five Towns? Do as moc does.

     
  • At 5:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I dont care what they do as long as they stop shlepping Mussaf..........

     
  • At 6:00 AM, Anonymous rabbi lars shalom said…

    hey strangers

     
  • At 8:29 PM, Blogger Dov said…

    Better than wering talis and pushing stroller - wearing talis while wife pushes stroler, much frummer!

     
  • At 11:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    What's wrong with wanting to look like a jew on shabbos?

     
  • At 5:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "What's wrong with wanting to look like a jew on shabbos?"

    Should he walk around with his Shmekle out too? There is no reason to wear your tallis out in the street assuming you hold by the eruv. We don't live in a "jewish only" town and it is bad enough of a hillul Hashem on Central Ave on a Friday but to carry it over into Shabbos by displaying your tallis is just as bad!--Let me ask you--When you help out in your shul (by helping put things away, clean up or whatever other mundane work needs to get done)--do you wear your Tallis then as well????--or wait..you probably don't help out in your shul because your job is "Tallis Wearing" outside and not helping out with the shul. Me bitter---ya --just a a bit!

     
  • At 7:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I know this doesn't work in the summer, but when necessary (i.e. if I'm in Brooklyn), I will wear a raincoat over the tallis to avoid this issue. Sometimes (if you have a small tallis) you can fit it under a suit jacket - it's better in my view to look like a linebacker than actually wear the tallis out.

    On a related note, what's your view on hakafos in the street or other public place? I had a curious co-worker ask me about that today.

     
  • At 9:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    So people don't use the eruvin because of chinuch. Speak to your nephew.

     
  • At 10:43 AM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    The issue is not whether one uses the eruv or not. America is a free country. If you don't want to use the eruv, gezunter haight. That is a red herring.

    The issue is wearing a talis outside.

     
  • At 10:17 AM, Blogger Bardichover said…

    Yidden might be waring talliesim out of Frumkeit, or for various other innocent reasons. It is not our job to assume that they have the wrong intentions, rather our obligation to dan them l'caf zechus.

     

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