A Question for Dov Bear
I assume that you do not say the tefilah for Medinat Yisrael since it begins, "Avinu Shebashamayim" (Our Father in Heaven (or, more literally, Our Father in the Sky)).
That would be kefirah, no?
I assume that you do not say the tefilah for Medinat Yisrael since it begins, "Avinu Shebashamayim" (Our Father in Heaven (or, more literally, Our Father in the Sky)).
That would be kefirah, no?
Labels: Random Thoughts
posted by MoChassid @ 9:08 AM
6 Comments:
At 10:01 AM,
בטל בששים said…
Not a problem, because he has a different nusach: Aviynu Sheba'garbayim :-)
At 1:11 PM,
DovBear said…
Snort. Do you really think that tefillah means that God lives in heaven? Per the Rambam imagining that God has a location is 100 percent kefirah. Thet's indisputable.
At 6:28 PM,
DovBear said…
If people would stop being makpid for others and start concentrating on their own maasim then the world would be a much better place.
Going around with socks uncovered is a lav. Denying Gods incorpreality is a dioraysah, and kefirah. But which one do you think gets the local god squads excited?
I don't have anything against OOD, but it should be clear that the Jewish people have their priorities seriously messed up on issues like this.
there have been MANY Kabbalists that have completely disagreed. are you going to say that they are being kofrim?
According to the Rambam they are kofrim. Look, if you want to argue that the ikaarim aren't so important, I'll agree with you. The trouble is that 21st century Judaism has made a fetish out of some of them while ignoring others. Take for example the 8th. If I were to deny one letter of the Torah, the combined might of orthodox Judaism would come raining down on my head. SO why are we so leniant with the 3rd?
They are both ikaarim. If we can play fast and loose with one, why not the other?
At 10:49 AM,
DovBear said…
According to the Rambam anyone who assigns a physical atribute (such as a location) to god is a kofer.
The prayer (1)means something else,(2)is kefirah or (3) relies on a kula, ie, someone other than the Rambam.
I hope it's not (3). It would make me sad to learn that a family of people who insist on the chumra of dressing like chasidm and the chumra of going to the mikva every week are relying on a leniancy when it comes to kefira.
At 11:14 AM,
DovBear said…
Rambam Hilchis Techuva, Chapter 3:
And these are the ones that have no share in the world to come... a min.
5 are called min.... one who says there is a God but there are two or more, and one who says there is one God but he posseses a form or a body
ואלו שאין להן חלק לעולם הבא, אלא
נכרתין ואובדין, ונידונין על גודל רשעם וחטאתם, לעולם ולעולמי עולמים: המינים, והאפיקורוסים, והכופרים בתורה, והכופרים בתחיית המתים, והכופרים בביאת הגואל, והמשומדים, ומחטיאי הרבים, והפורשים מדרכי ציבור, והעושה עבירות ביד רמה בפרהסיה כיהויקים, והמוסרים, ומטילי אימה על הציבור שלא לשם שמיים, ושופכי דמים, ובעלי לשון הרע, והמושך עורלתו.
טו [ז] חמישה הן הנקראין מינים: האומר שאין שם אלוה, ואין לעולם מנהיג; והאומר שיש שם מנהיג, אבל הם שניים או יתר; והאומר שיש שם ריבון אחד, אלא שהוא גוף ובעל תמונה; וכן האומר שאינו לבדו ראשון וצור לכול; וכן העובד אלוה זולתו, כדי להיות מליץ בינו ובין ריבון העולמים. כל אחד מחמישה אלו מין
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