The rambling thoughts of a Modern Orthodox Chassid (whatever that means). Contact me at emansouth @

Thursday, June 07, 2007

Appropriation is the Best Form of Flattery.

One of the downsides to producing a Jewish music hit, especially if you are a non-shiny shoe guy, is that the tune is (un)fair game for every Tom, Lipa and Yisroel in Shiny Shoe Land to record your song. Often, they butcher it by overproducing and adding all kinds of unnecessary noise or producing it to a techno-disco beat.

What's more, they rarely pay royalties. This is currently happening to Shlomo Katz in connection with his tune Niggun Nevo which appears on his V'Hakohanim CD. To my knowledge, it has been recorded by at least two other performers, one of whom has really (IMHO) detroyed it. So far, Shlomo has not seen a dime in royalties.

There is nothing an artist can do to prevent others from killing his songs but the even sadder part is that the royalties don't even amount to much; just 9 cents per song per CD if I'm not mistaken. It seems to me that if you're going to ruin someone's song, the least you can do is pay dor it.



  • At 4:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Mo Chassid,
    I respectfully dissagree with you.
    It wasnt a hit till, as you call it "shiny shoe" guys made a more yeshivishe feel to it. These producers made it a hit. Much more people know the tune now than before, so who are you kidding?

    As far as the royalties, give these guys some time. As you very well know the amount of money that goes into an album can make anyone tight on money, i'm sure they will get around to it(though i cant speak on their behalf, as i dont know them)

  • At 4:29 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    Gigging musician

    Perhaps I should have used the term "catchy tune" rather than "hit". Who cares who or how many people know the tune now? That also isn't my point.

    My point is that Shiny shoe performers find these tunes and then overproduce them and make them popular to the shiny shoe music velt. And, contrary to your certainty that they get around to paying royalties, it is simply not true. For example, with the exception of Lev Tahor who did pay Chaim Dovid a royalty fee, I don't think anyone has paid him a dime for recording his "niggun' (yamamai). In most cases they never even gave him the curtesy of telling him that they were recording it.

    And ask the Carlebach estate about royalties.

    I hope that you are right that they will step up for Shlomo but I am not as hopeful as you.

  • At 10:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Gigging musician.
    Unfortunately, good taste and popularity don't always(almost never?) intersect....regarding royalties...I think you are being extremely kindhearted....I'd welcome losing this one, but as a group,I'd bet that "shiny shoe" producers are more likely to make excuses before they make royalty payments...their collective reputation precedes them

  • At 12:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    It is simply not true that Niggun Nevo was not a hit until the "Shiny Shoe" guys recorded it. I was calling it on gigs as soon as the album came out, mostly because guys were already asking for it. And with all due respect, I lead enough bands to know when something is being requested.
    As far as royalties go, there is nothing stopping Shlomo from calling a lawyer who specializes in this type of thing to pursuue the matter. He would win. Unfortunately, it's questionable whether there is enough money at stake to worth it for him.

  • At 8:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Mo, I see since the MBD post your holding back, if I were you I'd name the abusers of his song. Niggun Nevo became a hit in the U.S. at weddings because of it's original flavor. People keep getting Shlomo Katz/Eitan type songs confused with Blue Fringe or Moshav. Eitan and Shlomo's music is very respectful, aidel and closer to Reb Shlomo's music and style then guys like Lipa or Shwekey will ever get.

    The two recent ripping off's of that song are putrid to say the least. The one thats on a "real" album is frighteningly bad, then one thats on a mix project CD is also nothing to write home about.

    The problem is most of the Shiny shoe crowd thinks you have to overproduce and throw all the bells and whistles on something for it to be successfull. Thats just not true, a good song will be popular, and you dont need to change it's essence for that to work. The original was ALREADY a hit everywhere.

    It'll just be a matter of time now before Niggun Nevo goes the way of the Niggun Neshsma, buthered, trampled and left for dead.

  • At 10:46 AM, Blogger MoChassid said…


    I have counseled Shlomo to send letters (I ama lawyer in my spare time) but, as you note, there simply isn't enough money in it to pursue.

  • At 10:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…


  • At 11:10 AM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    anon 10:46

    You could be right but at the end of the day, there simply isn't enough money in it to pursue.

    For example, say a shiny shoe guy sold 10,000 units of a CD that had Niggun Nevo. At 9 cents per unit, it would only be $900. 30,000 units is only $2,700. It doesn't work.

    At the end of the day, musicians are relying on yashrus, which, sadly, seems to be in short supply.

  • At 2:03 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    Hasidic Musician has linked to this post with his views.

  • At 2:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The supply won't change until the demand does.

  • At 4:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    When Williger was interviewed on Nachum Segal he explained that this song came from "He heard it, not the first one, but you know how only 20 guys who heard it in eretz yisroel come back and ask for it"

    24 min: 50 sec

    and then later said that he called up Shlomo Katz who is a shtikel carlebachian and lives in Israel, and asked his permission and Shlomo said he "it would be his biggest honor and pleasure"

    You have to really hear the interview to appriciate how little feeling and love goes into him singing this song.

    He tells Nachum at one point "you know what the best part of my job is? When they come over and say, "Shir Hamalos" ... Phew, it's over!"

    Other highlights include him crying about people copying hi music and how much money they are losing.

    (48 min 7 seconds)

    This is also after him saying earlier in the interview (about 20 minutes in) that he is soooo busy he sometimes does 5 wedding a week! So, what is that, 7 Grand times 5 nights?

    Hmm ... good one! Tell that to Shlomo Katz.

  • At 6:30 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Lets be honest:Shlomo Katz is not on the "shiny shoe" J.M. scene radar at all.Lipa and Williger only help him by introducing him to a more mainstream audience and giving him much more earning potential than he would ever see from royalties.I am not condoning "stealing",just pointing out that Katz is hardley the loser in this case.

  • At 5:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Gigging Musician" is an idiot.

    Shlomo Katz played Niggun Nevo as far back as three years ago at a yom haatzmaut chagigah in YU in front of hundreds of people and it was an instant hit. the bootleg recording of that performance - together with his brother Eitan and members of Neginah has been flotaing around the net for some time (together with a bootleg from the same party of nigun neshama).

    It was a such a hit, they played it for 15 minutes and had an encore afterwards.

    Many many people from that chagigah took it back to their schools, camps and youth groups.

    Camp Simcha adopted the song as their official theme song a summer even before kat'z album came out, and everyone knew to attribute the song to him.

    When williger had to erase the recotding of the baltimore lcha dodi from his new album at the last minute, he juimped on the chance to to sieze on the popularity of nigun nevo.

    Gigging guy doesnt have his finger the pulse of his audience at all.

    It seemes shlomo katz is beocming more like shlomo carlebach in more ways the people want to think.

  • At 5:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Jordan is right on the money except the underestimating of camp simcha's role in the yu/ncsy - brooklyn route.
    They played a huge role over the years when it came to reviving many songs and requesting it at their respective simchas (the yeshivas/institutions the guys crome span the spectrum from both ends) leading to trends.

  • At 6:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    when williger just sang the nigun nevo at the miracles 18 (arutz sheva) concert, i dont think he really plugged shlomo katz at all

  • At 9:01 AM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    It is insulting and ridiculous to suggest that when shiny shoe guys cover niggunim from guys like Shlomo it inurs to the benefit of the original composers. That is, simply, hogwash, and it certainly is not what motivates the shiny shoe guys. They are desperate for hits because that's all they care about. And since the regular shiny shoe music is all the same and mediorce at best, they are frantically on the lookout for better music. That's what's it's about so let's call a spade a spade.

  • At 9:39 AM, Blogger J. "יהוא בן יהושפט בן נמשי" Izrael said…

    Are tunres copyrighted and copyrightable? Can anyone confirm this? Doest this mean that anytime anyone writes a song and someone else covers it (that's was the original way music was performed - from the early wanderer musicians to classical music. Performers composing their own music is an early 20th century innovation, started with jazz and sept into blues & rock) the composer gets royalties? That's strange. I see no problem with covering other's songs - not giving credit for it is another thing. Usually anyone covering the songs attributes it to the authors - so if you know who they are, you know, but a lot of times you go crazy trying to figuring out who performed it originally. (see also comment in post entitled "Stealing II)

  • At 9:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…


    It's about whats right and whats wrong. The shiny shoe crowd hold themselves to a higher standard and claim rights to whats "kosher" Jewish music. So to then go and do this, it's not yashrus, it's not mentschlich and it's not Kosher.

  • At 10:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    All you big mouths out there----FYI, Shlomo Katz gave permission to BOTH albums to use Niggun Nevo

  • At 10:42 AM, Blogger Chaim said…

    MoChassid - Can you confirm that Shlomo did or did not give permission? Have you personally spoken with him?

  • At 11:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    there was a rumor goinmg around before williger used nigun nevo that he called to ask shlomo for permission and after mulling it over he gave a flattered ok.
    again that was just rumor.
    the problem then becomes when people like briskman etc. appropriate it as one of their own just like everything else.

  • At 11:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Gigging, it was a huge hit way before the "shiny shoe" guys did anything with it.
    This was the same phenonmenon with Chaim Dovid's yamamai and nafsheinu AND of course the old saga with the shalheves boys choir "tov lehodos" , these songs were huuuge hits in the larger circles, way before the brooklyn guys got their hands on them . Avrumi Flam never had a hit, so he took tov lehodos YEARS after it was already a huge hit in the yu/ncsy circles. (bet you forgot that one, eh Jordan?)

    The truth remains that this is where the hits come from and this is who sets the trends. Its no negina or briskman or williger...its the thousands of mini gigs happening every week, where the hits are determined by the little people in the audience.

    It is like this with all of the little popular culture shtick sneaking into jewish music as well.

    theres is less than 6 degrees of seperation in all these circles.

    ncsy/yu/camp simcha/ camp hasc/ waterbury/shor yashuv/darchei torah/ner yisroel/yu and the ball goes round and around. This is how all of the popular song trends have gone the last few years.

  • At 11:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Why did williger have to drop Rabbi Goldberger's song ?

  • At 11:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anonymous 6:30 am is so wrong.

    He may not be on the radar on Avenue J, but he is on the radar in the yeshiva dorm halls, the camp bunks and the sweaty shirt tails.

  • At 1:10 PM, Blogger Unknown said…

    It's hard to believe what I'm reading. All those years, let alone hours, 'sharpening the mind' learning Gemorah; all those hours suggestion a committment to halacha as a committment to righteous correct behavior....
    First. To copyright, all one has to do is mail the music to oneself with an encircled c on the music. That's it. Once done, the music is legally the property of the composer and anyone wishing to use it, must recognize who the owner is and pay compensation.

    Second. The lack of the most basic derech eretz is astounding. This is holy music, designed to bring people closer to a more authentic avodas HaShem. And then it gets distorted, warped in rediculous ways. Ways that reveal the essential lack of talent on the part of the thief, the lack of a capacity to hear a niggun as it was composed, distorting it, changing it, not from a musical aestetic but out of a place of dull mediocrity. The laziness and even more the ease with which people appropriate nigguning not only without shame, but with an indignation that someone would call them on it.

    Reb Shlomo, zt"l mourned what people did to his niggunim. Here are two things he said: "Music comes from Heaven. One has no right to change even one note of one of his niggunim. Anyone who was at his shul on Simchas Torah, as so many 'outside frummies' would come, can testify how with awesome exacerbation, he would stop the dancing, scream at the kahal that they were killing the niggun and slowly teach them the correct way. And most of the time they repeated the mistakes. Because they really weren't listening and really didn't care. The most important thing to them was having anarchic fun. Avodas HaShem? The farthest thing from their small minds.

    He also said, "imagine a conversation and you change one word. You change the whole meaning! Al achas kama v'kma if you change one note of one niggun!"

    However the cynacism, the lack of care and respect, the smug complacent hubris of the 'yeshivish' world gives us hope. The golus must be coming to it's end. Because these 'frum' people have nothing of substance to pass on to the next generation.

    And if I never hear another horrible, whint, Las Vegas lounge act litvishe singer again, it will be too soon.

    Anbd there's so much more, but does anyone really care? Does anyone really care about how Rav Shlomo Katz feels about what people do to his music? Yes he's a Rav. He has two smichas. He teaches Torah and counsles hundreds of yidden. He's working for Geula. Not a career as an entertainer. His music serves the same function as Reb Shlomo's: To turn Yidden onto a higher light than whatever they are holding. And so, so much more.

  • At 1:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    ya but uh...du-uh
    shwekey learns in kolylel!

  • At 1:52 PM, Blogger Unknown said…

    good response fanny glasses.

  • At 2:02 PM, Blogger Unknown said…

    Just listened to The NeXt Project X
    Schmeltzer, Lipa version of Niggun Nevo. I would charachterize it as rape by the musically autistic.

  • At 2:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To Rabbi Moshe Pesach,I too am a Carlebach purist who cringes when I hear deviations from how R'Shlomo sung originaly. However,I also witnessed R'Shlomo "correcting" people singing his niggunim on 2 occasions and his harsh reaction could only be characterized as mean and temper tantrum like.I don't think this is a part of his holy legacy that any Carlebach disciple should be taking pride in.I truely believe that Carlebach's niggunim were divinley inspired ,yet this does not justify anger or embaressing well meaning people singing off ,which is something I witnesed.I think we both know that R' Shlomo loved all Jews;yeshivish,litvish,reform,chassidish,unafiliated ect.,yet your hypocrtical post shows only hatred. You preach "derech eretz" in your post;practice what you preach.

  • At 2:20 PM, Blogger Unknown said…

    Hmmm...Annonyous posted. WHy the hiding? Secondly, I want to see you react to someone who stole from you or publicly distorted the best you had to give. Thirdly, you need to study up on Rebbe Nachman's Torah's on Azus d'Kedusha. Forthly, Reb Shlomo's point was that the music was the property of HaShem! He sent it down. Changing the niggun was an affront to HaShem! Fifthly, loving someone does not preclude being royally pissed off at unconscious behavior. Sixthly, hocha'ach Toch'ach et amitecha. Ah you say only when they are open. Well, the Gemara teaches that one of the 15 simanim we are in dor Geula is the extended level of chutzpah where people can't and/or won't receive tochacha. Your words only further condemns the smallness and small mindedness of the golus'dik yeshiva world.

    I wouldn't be so pissed off if I didn't spend my life dealing with the victims and casualties of that olam, whose numbers are growing exponentially. Instead of apologetics, it's time to realize the following: THERE'S A FIRE BURNING IN THE WORLD! THERE'S NO TIME LEFT! ENOUGH BABYING THE SELF-CONGRAGULATORY, ELITEST, TRIUMPHALIST YESHIVA WORLD WHEN IT IS COLLAPSING UNDER ITS OWN WEIGHT AND WHEN YIDDEN ARE THE ONE'S WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE HIGHEST EXEMPLARS OF DIVINE-LIKE BEHAVIOR AND PRINCIPALS IN THE WORLD!

  • At 2:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Rabbi Moshe Pesach,as I realize I won't get anywhere arguing with you in your current state,all I can say in the spirit of R'Shlomo is"stop all this hatred and sing the song of Shabbos"

  • At 3:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I am so sick and tired of all these "carlbach Purists" who pick and choose which styles are good for R' shlomo Carlebach's ZT'l Music! If you like the Eitan/Shlomo Katz style, thats great! If you like it the Sruli Willger way, thats great also! R' Shlomo sang for many different audiences, and they all adapted it to their way of music. Sruli williger put a "brooklyn touch" and shlomo katz put on his touch. Lets not forget, R' Shlomo also sang for money. A mensch has to do what he has to do for parnassa. Of course he did it Lsheim shamayim, but he charged because he needed to. Same with the NY scene. BTW, do the whole group of guys that put out carlebach albums give royalties to the carlbach family??????

  • At 3:04 PM, Blogger Unknown said…

    Brother....Ohavei HaShem Sinu Rah....Secondly, let's see you challenge the substance of what I wrote rather than cringing in discomfort. You don't like it? Trust me, I hate that I have any cause for any of these feelings more than you hate hear them or read them. Yes, you HATE what I write. Hate. You hate. ...Sinu Rah....You need to learn how to make havdallah between hate and hate.

    Yidden are supposed to be the doctors of this world. But we are practising mal practice. ANd yes, I will shout out from the rooftops until no end against those that harm other's.

    Hang out with the victims rather than apologize for the victimizers.

    And why are you not interested or caring about what has gotten me to this point? Why don't you express any interest in the 'other'?

  • At 3:29 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    There are three separate issues.

    First, anyone can cover any copyrighted work so long as they pay royalties. Permission need not be granted. I know for a fact that Shlomo never gave Lipa permission. I understand that he cut a financial deal with Williger that Williger has not performed. One can only hope that Williger will not welch on the agreement and that Lipa will pay royalties.

    The second issue is how shiny shoe performers cover these songs. I have not heard Willigers rendition but Lipa's is nothing less than disgusting. I also know for a fact that Shlomo is appalled by this version.

    The third issue is that shiny shoers like Williger go to great lengths to make the oilam think that it is they, rather than the author and original performer, who are responsible for the success of the song. That is a form of geneivas ha'daas.

  • At 3:33 PM, Blogger Unknown said…

    Yasher Koach to MOChassid for his clear, straight clarifying words who says without my polemics, the emes. There is no room for argument with integrity in what he has said.

  • At 5:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    co-opting goes both or rather all ways.

    scruffy beared to fancy glasses, shiny shoes to open sandals and of course, goyish to jewish hippie, and goyish to yeshivishe rock.
    everyone pilfers, copies , misappropriates and steals.

    every jewish hippie group last year was playing ufduyey and salaam all the same.

  • At 7:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    get real!,

    please don't muddy Brooklyn, by saying williger gives it a "brooklyn touch" I'd rather he didnt touch brooklyn if thats alright with everyone else.

    It's not just a different type of singer singing the song a different way. When Williger and Lipa sing it the song is drained of all it's flavor, spirit and life.

    Please, stick to Hu Klal!!! Leave the good stuff alone.

  • At 7:41 AM, Blogger Unknown said…

    I appreciate Annonymous's desire for more civil speech. I was in a hard space. That doesn't mean I retract what I know, see, feel or believe.

    It's just that there is so little enlightenment in a Torah way in the Yeshivish world and so much narrow shallowness that it fosters this problem.

    What does it mean that the music comes down from Heaven? It means, like Torah, it needs to be RECEIVED! Kabbalat Torah! It's a different kind of learning.

    And it is the pain that emerges from the recognition of the severe limits that currently exist to bringing the Jewish People together under the umbrella of Torah as a result.

    Reb Shlomo said: "I need drunk Yidden. I need Yidden who are so drunk with Yiddishkeit that when people see them, they would say, 'I wish I was a Yid.'"

    We have the gold to enrich the whole world; to reveal that HaShem Echad u'Shmo Echad. But the ones who have the gold are hoarding for themselves and only sharing it such a way, that the gold becomes tarnished and most therefore, don't want it.

    As long as the models of who and what a Yid should be emerge from a disconnected European shetl vision, a world which HaShem destroyed 60+ years ago, then we will be arguing over a pygmie's regurgetating something exalted. It is taking the Eitz HaChaim and turning into the Eit HaDaas, when the whole tikkun of this world is the opposite.

    May HaShem shine His Light to one and all in a Geula'dik way and may all Yidden come to Yerushalayim and know what can only be known here:

    Kee Mitziyon Taytze Torah, u'Dvar HaShem may'Yerushalayim.

  • At 8:24 AM, Blogger Unknown said…

    Thank You GET REAL for being a case in point. Here's The Perfect Example of What I Mean:
    I am so sick and tired of all these "carlbach Purists" who pick and choose which styles are good for R' shlomo Carlebach's ZT'l Music!"

    IT IS NOT ABOUT STYLE!!!!! Style is what you taken on when you have no authentic personality. It is about BEING IN UNITY WITH THE SPIRIT!!!!

    Get Real continues:
    If you like the Eitan/Shlomo Katz style, thats great!

    I say:
    When one has no standards, when one has no idea that there are standards, when one care little or none about standards, then everything's good and everything's ok and everything's the same. This is the message of the nachash - the snake: It drags everything down to it's level, rather than lifting things up to a higher level.

    Get Real says:
    Sruli williger put a "brooklyn touch" and shlomo katz put on his touch.

    I say:
    There lies the difference. Brooklyn is a tragedy of the most severe stunting of the frum Jew. It is the perfect example of the truth that the worst evil in the world is the evil disguised as good. It is the voluntary as well as celebratory nature of the Brooklyn golus that ultimately can only increase the distortion of the Jewish People

    Get Real Says:
    Lets not forget, R' Shlomo also sang for money.

    I say:
    I bet you really think you know something. You have no idea what percentage of the time Reb Shlomo sang and taught for free. You have no idea how much he suffered for parnassa, giving away millions from his pocket. HEWASN'T A PERFORMER, SINGER OR ENTERTAINER. HE WAS A REBBE WHO USED EVERYTHING THAT HE HAD TO SAVE THE WORLD AND BRING GEULA. MUSIC WAS JUST ONE WAY HE REACHED OUT TO PEOPLE.

    How much do the 'shiny shoes' give away. How much do they sacrifice their parnassa, health, home life to go anywhere to save Jews? Please, don't don't give Heaven more ammunition. Don't compare Brooklyn to Reb Shlomo. For your sake. How much embarrasement can you take?

    Get Real says:
    A mensch has to do what he has to do for parnassa.

    I say:
    Does that justify anything and everything? Doesn't one stop being a mench if that's what one does? Please...

    Get Real says:
    Of course he did it Lsheim shamayim, but he charged because he needed to.

    I say:
    If you would know anything about the music business, you would know it is only in the pro world that the performer gets to decide the ticket prices. Not in the Jewish world. In the Jewish world, the promoter does that.You can't know the literaly thousands of times over 35 years that Shlomo got stiffed on contracts

    Get Real says:
    BTW, do the whole group of guys that put out carlebach albums give royalties to the carlbach family??????

    I say:
    Good question. The frummies rarely do. Ask Neshama how many lawsuits she's had to initiate.

  • At 1:35 PM, Blogger contemplative said…

    i dunno about the "group" of guys though I do know that Eitan katz Is paying for his use of R' Shlomo's niggunim

  • At 11:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    fyi yosef aisensatrk made up tov lehodos- he is a rebbe in canada- the song has been used by virtually everu big singer, from mbd down, and recoreded by shwekey, yet noone has even asked him if he minds, let alone pay him royalties-

    but 'tov lehodos lahashem' rite?

  • At 12:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    this all goes back to the original "attribution" omission, the phenomenon that the artist known as Yehuda exclamation ran around for years singing Martin Davidosn's hit Modim without ever mentioning his name not ever, not in any performance misleading many of his young fans to think it was exclusively his song. Even yerachmiel begun printed on a concert album "composed by yehuda" and the mistake has to this day never been corrected.

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