MOChassid

The rambling thoughts of a Modern Orthodox Chassid (whatever that means). Contact me at emansouth @ aol.com

Wednesday, August 30, 2006

Aliyah III

Joe Schick and The Town Crier defend the Orthodox Jewish community saying that the number of people making aliyah, around 2500 - 3000 this year, is not that low. Everything is relative. While Nefesh B'Nefesh certainly deserves props, I think it's still a drop in the bucket.

But Joe makes a great point which is full of irony. The same schools that do a miserable job of promoting aliyah spiritually will probably be the biggest driver of aliyah in the years to come for entirely practical reasons. As it becomes increasingly more difficult for large families to deal with yeshiva tuition, the financial advantages of living in this country narrow relative to living in Israel where tuition is virtually free.

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18 Comments:

  • At 2:59 PM, Blogger DovBear said…

    The same schools that do a miserable job of promoting aliyah spiritually will probably be the biggest driver of aliyah in the years to come for entirely practical reasons

    Ha. The schools driving aliya are places like HAFTR, Shulamith, RAMAZ, MTA, Flatbush and Frisch. In other words, most of the Aliya, and the enthuisiasm for Israel comes from the schols that are the most expensive.

     
  • At 3:10 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    Dov Bear, I'm confused. I don't understand your point. How many kids from those schools do you think are making aliyah and how many of them are making aliyah because of those schools (and not their experiences in yeshivas and seminaries in Israel)?

     
  • At 3:15 PM, Blogger DovBear said…

    You said: "The same schools that do a miserable job of promoting aliyah spiritually will probably be the biggest driver of aliyah in the years to come for entirely practical reasons."

    But the most expensive schools are the ones doing the best job encouraging kids to love Israel, to celebrate yom haatzmaut, to march in the parade, and to study a year abroad.

     
  • At 3:20 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    You are way off. The percentage of kids from Ramaz, HAFTR and Frisch that go to Israel is way below some of the other schools. And marching in a parade, saying hallel on yom ha'atzmaut is hardly a way to encourage kids to move to Israel. You've got to be kidding me.

     
  • At 5:10 PM, Blogger The Town Crier said…

    not only tuition, but i hear that the socialized medicine in israel makes a huge difference.

     
  • At 6:03 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    TTC

    Could be but the cost of health insurance costs certainly is not enough to drive aliyah by itself. Tuition is another story.

     
  • At 6:05 PM, Blogger The Town Crier said…

    every little bit helps
    what about the ultra long fully paid maternity leave?

     
  • At 6:06 PM, Blogger The Town Crier said…

    What the statistics dont show - is how many more Israelis there will be if a thousand new olim each have even one or perhaps 3 or ten children...

     
  • At 7:19 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    TTC

    All the more reason it is so sad that more people aren't going

     
  • At 11:01 PM, Blogger kishke said…

    I thought you were referring to the charedi schools and yeshivos, who certainly don't promote aliyah, but whose graduates are more likely than any others to move to EY after marriage.

     
  • At 9:30 AM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    Kishke

    The MO schools don't promote aliyah either. They just do parve things like march in the parade so it LOOKS like they promote aliyah.

    The fact that many chareidim move after marraige despite being educated in schools that do not promote aliyah sort of proves my point. People tend to move because they have a spiritual connection; not because they march in a parade or discuss Israeli politics on Shabbos.

     
  • At 12:34 PM, Blogger The Town Crier said…

    AFAIK for many years, Rabbi Y. Marcus formerly of the Young Israel of Staten Island had setup a special shul fund, that allowed for a stpiend paid by the shul whenever members of the community made aliyah. I beleive the plan is still in effect. Why the idea never caught on is beyond me. Why not introduce the concept at Aish?

     
  • At 1:24 PM, Blogger DovBear said…

    You are way off. The percentage of kids from Ramaz, HAFTR and Frisch that go to Israel is way below some of the other schools. And marching in a parade, saying hallel on yom ha'atzmaut is hardly a way to encourage kids to move to Israel. You've got to be kidding me.

    You've got to be kidding me. Every one I know who made aliya went to a place like HAFTR, MTA, Shulamith. Everyone I know who wants to make aliya either went to a school like that, or currently lives in a place like Teaneck on Highland Park.

    All the flag waving during childhood is hard to overcome. Meanwhile, the kids who went to Darchei Torah or similar charedi schools were taught to be indifferent toward Israel, and that, too, doesn't wear off quickly.

     
  • At 1:29 PM, Blogger kishke said…

    Well, almost everyone I know who made aliyah went to a place like BMG, Mir, Chaim Berlin, Telz, Bais Yaakov, Yeshiva of Brooklyn etc.

     
  • At 2:12 PM, Blogger The Town Crier said…

    kishke, did they "make aliyah" or are they on constant tourists visas, coming home to flatbush at least once a year for 6 weeks of pesach?

     
  • At 2:50 PM, Blogger MoChassid said…

    DB

    Then you apparently don't know that many people.

    And, in any event, it is in spite of the superficial education they get, not because of it. Those who make aliyah tend to get the bug because of their year in Israel, not because of any silly parade or any other thing that the schools have done.

    To their credit, some schools do push the kids to spend a year in Israel and have very high percentages (like HALB and Rambam, for example). Frisch and Ramaz (and probably Flatbush) no doubt have much lower percentages that go.

    And, you are confusing two issues. At the more Chareidi schools they certainly don't learn to waive the Israeli flag. But that is not what is driving their aliyah. It's a spiritual connection to Eretz Yisrael. That's exactly what's missing from MO education. They have the superficial, national and political connection to Medinat Yisrael but not a spiritual one. They either get that in Israel or they don't make aliyah.

    TTC

    The number of families that have made (and are scheduled to make) aliyah from Aish is extraordinarily high on a per capita basis relative to any other shul in the Five Towns. And it's real aliyah. And it's been done without stipends (though I think that idea has merit).

     
  • At 3:41 PM, Blogger yeshivaguy said…

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

     
  • At 7:43 PM, Blogger kishke said…

    And if they're on tourist visas and visit once a year, so what? They're still living there, not here, whereas most young MO couples are not.

    Besides, most of the people I know are there for the long haul.

     

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